Guiding Light's Kim Zimmer- "I Don't Know Who The Powers That Be Dislike More, Kim Zimmer Or Reva Shayne"

Wow, them are fightin' words!! Normally I think it's ill-advised for an actor to publicly criticize TIIC, but I think the situation over at GL really warrants this kind of calling out.

Zimmer has always been outspoken. She along with Erika Slezak, Eric Braeden and a few select others have always been able to speak out without much in form of punishment, because they are icons on their respective soaps.

I am so happy that she spoke up! Maybe now, some changes will happen soon. Did you guys catch GL's rating for the week of 3/31? 1.6!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Something needs to be done. NOW!!!!!

***///Living In The World Of Soaps Since 1985\\\***

Hopefully this will have the impact of that Erika Slezak's comments about OLTL did that brought about changes.

From your lips to God's ears, Luke!

***///Living In The World Of Soaps Since 1985\\\***

Best (are you the infamous Jay from the podcasts?),

Guiding Light has already been renewed and I don't think a 1.6 rating at this point is anything to be terribly concerned about.

When CBS made the switch to the new format, they had to know they were going to lose a lot of viewers, at least until they got things on track. And the show has been airing full-time for less than a month, so it is premature in my opinion to drag out the bagpipes just yet. I don't think Bloom and the affiliates are panicking too much.

Remember, there is a misconception about soap ratings: the way they are covered and reported, one would think that all of the soaps are in direct competition with each other because they roughly share the same daypart. But the truth of the matter is that each individual serial is not only competing with its counterparts, but are in competition with every other show that airs in its particular time slot. So for example here in the Atlanta market, GL isn't competing with just GH, but also Judge Judy, Judge Joe Brown, Rachel Ray, and the syndicated reruns of All of Us and What I Like About You on the major channels...excluding superstations, basic cable, premium cable, and whatever is on PBS for the kiddies. And let's not forget that initial Nielsen ratings still mainly reflect original broadcast. Other factors like DVR+1 or +3 are also factored in, as well as online streaming. I wouldn't be surprised if some poor intern somewhere isn't also checking views on YouTube and those tallies being unofficially added by the networks.

Most important of all network( and affiliates are judging these shows market by market. Guiding Light's renewal at 1.8-1.9 just half a decade ago would have been unthinkable, but given the current levels of viewership it is less a miracle than a reflection of the realities of the marketplace. Like Tristan Rogers said in one of the most illuminating interviews on the Daytime Confidential podcast not too long ago, the time to start worrying about soaps in the current climate is if they start hitting 1.2-1 million viewers (and thus a 1.1 rating) and then there is some real trouble.

Having said that, GL does need to make a LOT of changes. But I submit the new production model is not the problem; that can be improved upon and fixed over time.

The real problem with GL it's David Kreizman. As a head writer he has some excellent ideas especially when it comes to certain character through lines such as Lizzie's uneasy quest for independence, Cassie's grief and mental instability over Tammy's death (and, by extension it should be added, Remy's anger) and Alan's obsession with his legacy...like 'em or hate 'em, at least they are consistent. He has also told several really good stories form beginning to end, like Jonathan & Tammy, Reva's cancer, and currently Dinah's takedown of Alan. Some individual episodes are absolutely brilliant. But...

In all the years in his post, Kreizman simply has not learned how to write deeply textured stories or refine characters that are not named Spaulding or Cooper. The Lewis clan, once integral to Springfield, seemed to be written as afterthoughts most days. Characters that many currently dislike -- Remy, Ava, Natalia, Rafe-- have enormous potential that has been squandered by an erratic focus and as a result some talented actors in these roles have been shortchanged, careening from plot point to plot point without real anchors. And veteran characters currently on the canvas like Matt, Vanessa, and Blake are like window dressing when all of them have tons of story potential. (Yes, in another post I praised their use but that praise doesn't detract from the criticism of HOW they are being used).

The new production model can be made better, but Kreizman has had enough time and its clear he needs to either have an experienced co-headwriter or be replaced completely.
"The truth is just an excuse for lack of imagination." - Garak, Deep Space Nine

No, I'm not Jay, but thanks for the compliment, though.

***///Living In The World Of Soaps Since 1985\\\***

NOBODY likes the new format. It's clear that 300-400k of viewers have turned the light off. Those ratings were for 3/31-4/4. The new format has been in effect since 2/29. It's a bust, honey.

The new production model is crap. I want my soap on a 8 set stage like all of the rest. This "real" stuff ain't hitting it. They are losing almost 500K in viewers because of this. It is time to panic because if they could lose that many in just a month's time, what will happen in 3 months or 6?

***///Living In The World Of Soaps Since 1985\\\***

Sisko...in answer to your question: Jay = Jamey Giddens (blogger here at DC). Hope that helps clear things up.

LOL I be that there "infamous" Jay from the podcast.

Jay, at least you were mistaken with a cutie such as myself. LMAO!

***///Living In The World Of Soaps Since 1985\\\***

When I started reading Jay's blog postings on here I thought, "Wow, this guy is great. They should put him on the podcast!!" LOL! Yeah, it took me awhile to figure out Jamey was the "infamous" Jay

I couldn't ask for a better case of mistaken identity!

Yeah, we are one in the same! LOL Like Loreali and Beth, Viki and Niki, Britney and British Britney.

Now I know my Jay's from my P's and my Q's! LOL...thank you for all that cleared it up!

Best,

To make a blanket statement that "nobody" or "everybody" likes or dislikes something simply because you or even the majority feels one way or the other is a bit presumuptuous. I have read a number of comments from people who do like this new production model. I certainly like it, despite its obvious shortcomings. I have stated this repeatedly with the caveat that major improvements need to be made to the model. I love the location work that ATWT is doing and even AMC when it gets out in the field. GL could a learn a lot of things from those two shows.

But I stand by everything I've said. I don't think the new production model ALONE is what is driving those viewers away as you imply. GL's writing has become more erratic and there is no sense of actual thrust with many of the storylines. GL has also-- new production model or not -- broken up popular couple after popular couple for no good reason other than to break them up in the interest of a misguided sense of "drama", killed off one of its most popular leading men (Gus), and continued to push yet another popular pairing to the wayside (Reva & Jeffrey) while propping up an exceedingly unpopular pairing (Cassie & Josh). And of course there has been the endless repetition of some thematic elements; one point for example, Alan's baby obsession was so acute it looked like he was going to stage a hostile takeover of Toys 'R Us!

Those are functions of writing, problems that existed long before the new production model and which I lay at the feet of Kreizman. I would further submit that if there is a mass exodus of viewers in relation to the new format, it is for those viewers the straw that broke the camel's back. Not necessarily the camel.

You say you want your soap on an 8 set stage, like all the rest. In GL's case, that's a thing of the past. Wheeler, CBS, and P&G reportedly took a year to put this model into place. Union crews have been fired, permanent sets have been struck or reworked, and the location shooting is here to stay. In my opinion, it is far more constructive to give advice and input to improve these new elements of the show -- like better and less intrusive camera angles, reworking and toning down the music, more cohesive transistions and lighting between outdoor and indoor shots -- as the Jay, Luke and others have said on the podcast, rather than throwing ones hands up in horror at what a train wreck GL has supposedly become.

We can of course agree to disagree and I would like to throw you this bone: while I see improvements being made to GL's new production model and CBS/Barbara Bloom has acknowledged that changes will be made, they need to implement those changes as quickly as possible because if those changes are not made, it will conitnue to CONTRIBUTE to the erosion of viewership.

Unlike you, I have no particular allegiance to a particular style of shooting. But, like you, I do want the show to be the best it possibly can be.

"The truth is just an excuse for lack of imagination." - Garak, Deep Space Nine

Lorelai!

Now, Jay, THAT is a character I would LOVE to see come back and cause some havoc!

"The truth is just an excuse for lack of imagination." - Garak, Deep Space Nine

The real problem is Ellen Wheeler not David Kreizman. She is the one that has final approval of all the stories. If P&G would step up and bring in a new EP that knows what they are doing then GL could rise from the ashes.

It's no secret, I think this production model bites. It's like something my Uncle Charles did at a family reunion with his camcorder...drunk. But you are right it isn't just the production issues, it's the story.

It's the cartoonish writing for Alan Spaulding. It's breaking up money couples like Josh and Reva, Dinah and Mallet and Gus and Harley not to "make us wait" for them to get back together complete with looks of longing and stories that bring them back into one another's orbits, which is of course a soap staple, but instead we have seen these  couples blatantly separated with no rhyme or reason and had new unsuccessful pairings (Josh and Cassie, Buz and Lillian, Dinah and Matt, Gus and Natalia, Rick and Beth) forced on us. 

It's also the firing of Jerry Ver Dorn (Ross), Grant Aleksander (Philip), Paul Anthony Stewart (Danny), Nancy St. Alban (Michelle) and Maureen Garrett (Holly).

It's backburnering Liz Kiefer (Blake) and Michael O'Leary (Rick)  while playing each and every Cooper five days a week. If the stories were awesome maybe the production stuff would be more tolerable, but with both production AND story out of whack and the ratings in the toilet, we can't ignore that the show is in serious trouble.

A year comes and goes before you know it. The renewal should not cause a sigh of relief but more of a mobilzation of forces. I love Guiding Light. I have for 16 years, but I have seen several soaps in much better shape than GL is right now bite the dust. Something has to give. Now see, I had planned to only try to right nice things about the show this week, look what you all made me do! LOL

Ellen has made her missteps, but the show was on life support when she inherited it. The last exec head who managed to create real ratings grow was Paul Rauch with the Reva/Josh/Annie triangle and Manny and even then the show was always on cancellation watch.

I started actively watching GL when this podcast started. Lisa and Luke raved about it and I just had to check it out. In the short time that I've watched I feel that it's gone downhill - a STEEP STEEP HILL>>> can't stand the new format and refuse to watch....until these "improvements" have taken affect.

GL was brilliant when I first started watching. The main couple was Nick Spaulding and Mindy Lewis. Mindy was the arch nemesis of Nick's mother Alexandra because Mindy-whom Alex had thought of like a daughter-had an affair with Alex's dastardly husband Roger Thorpe. Roger was younger than Alex, so she felt humilated by his affair with an even younger woman. So you can imagine she wasnt too happy when the woman who broke up her marriage fell for her son. The show made a huge mistake when they killed off the core heroine, Maureen Reardon Bauer, which many say it never recovered from.

In addition to the Mindy/Nick/Alex storyline, there was the mother/daughter triangle of Blake, Ross and Holly and the starcrossed pairing of Frank and Eleni. Bill and Vanessa were quite popular and Buzz was a relatively new, quirky character, a con man who had abandoned his family by pretending to be dead following the Vietnam War.

Ironically characters like Josh, Reva and Harley weren't on when I started watching. They had left following their 80s heyday, but they slowly all found their way back home in Springfield to great fanfare.

In my opinion the show really didn't know what to do with Josh and Reva when they had them come back. Josh had a missed pairing with Marcy Walker's character Tangie before being paired with Annie Dutton (Cynthia Watros), Rick Bauer's alcoholic ex-wife who was a nurse at Cedars.

Josh and Annie were together when Reva was brought back from the dead. First they made Reva a ghost in what was to be a short run, but she proved still popular so they brought her back on contract and it was revealed Reva was alive and living in Amish country. They tried pairing her with Alan and Buzz, while making her and Josh bitter enemies over their kids Marah and Shayne. Then Paul Rauch smartly put them back on the path to reconciliation, which drove Annie mad.

This triangle worked really well, but then in an ill advised attempt to compete with Days of Our Lives-style supernatural theatrics, they cloned Reva. But even that storyline wasn't a total bust because ratings did spike and the show hired Joy Lenz who had played clone Reva brilliantly to replace Rebecca Budig as Michelle Bauer, which led to the character becoming a bonafide young adult heroine when paired with Paul Anthony Stewart's Danny.  Not even the recast with Nancy St. Alban as Michelle slowed the couple's popularity, but in a scratch your head move, TPTB fired both Stewart and St. Alban.

Since then, things have gone from bad to worst. Philip and Ross are gone and  I know a lot of fans loved Jammy, but the incestuous aspect was hard to tolerate for a percentage of the audience, including myself. Laura Wright exiting the show and them pairing Cassie with Josh only added to the instability.

Marcy Walker as Tangie Hill! I remember that...oh boy, that did not work, good thing she went back to AMC.

I know it's slightly off topic, but one of my favorite storylines from around that time was the Brent/Marion/Lucy/Alan Michael - Homage to Psycho - storyline. That was the creepiest, most disturbing story ever, and I LOVED IT!!!

Oh I HATED that Brent/Marion storyline! I admit it was well written, but that character was too disturbing for daytime. He tricked Lucy into believing he gave her HIV when he raped her, then he killed sweet, cute Nadine! I still shudder! LOL

See I think that's why I liked that s/l so much, because I had never seen anything as disturbing on daytime before (or since!) Brent was truly one of the most horrible villians ever! And I was so sad that he killed Nadine (and Cutter), but because he was actually killing off characters that I liked, it gave the storyline more resonance and made it that much scarier. I really felt that the writing, plotting, and acting in that s/l was as effective as many cinematic experiences I've had. I was absolutely riveted!

As far as the sets go, I've gone on record about that. They stink. I don't need to see where the writer's gather to bring crap to GL as the Spaulding Boardroom. (Yes the writer's room or was that the rehersal space?) I understand the issue really. As The World Turns actually has a studio here in Brooklyn but GL has to settle for a floor in the CBS building on 55th Street. It's not that much room. So expanding to New Jersey and outdoor sets was a brill idea. Ellen Wheeeler gets props for that.

Even though I can deal with the crappy audio, miniscule sets, I can't deal with mediocre writing. The soul is gone from this show. It's sad to see this show getting Passions like ratings, a show about witches and bobitizations. I think it's time to change the underwear and shower up and put on that sexy LBD back on this show that used to be the classiest of the bunch. I see a mish mosh going on of Y&R LML proportions.

In my mind Kim Zimmer is the truth. Tell it! Tell it!

I agree that there's more wrong with GL than the production. I never said that there wasn't. It's just seems that they basically thought of this to distract us from the other major problems on the show. Of course if they tweaked it, got a better HW & EP, it would probably be more bearable to watch. They really need to take a page out of ATWT's book and shoot their scenes like that.

In other news, please tell me that Josh is not going to forgive Cassie for cheating on him. If it were Reva, he would have given her hell! Why does DK think that Josh & Cassie are some supercouple?

***///Living In The World Of Soaps Since 1985\\\***

I believe it's time for KZ to pack up her dignity and hit the road. Reva's already lost hers. Wherever she goes I will follow.

NO!!!!!!!!!!
If Kim leaves, this show is a goner for sure!

***///Living In The World Of Soaps Since 1985\\\***

Well for me, the show was a goner as soon as EW and DK came to town. I've been through a lot of ups and downs from this show in the last 32 years and I don't think it can get any worse. KZ leaving now would be the best thing for her. I do keep up with what's going on, but I quit watching 7 months ago. GL has already lost it's dignity in my book.

The most logical choice for Kim to go should she remain in daytime is ATWT. The other soaps all have a lead diva, although it would be AWESOME to see her go head to head with Susan Flannery on B&B as Logan matriarch Beth! I know, I know I already said I wanted Donna Mills for that part, but Kim would be AWESOME as a Beth grown stronger by years of regret and heartbreak. She could also talk some sense into ther daughters and dopey granddaughter Bridget!